The passion of one woman’s social concern

Francis Bacon’s Advancement of Learning applied to Margaret Fell’s Women’s Speaking Justified.

Francis Liked Bacon

Francis Liked Bacon

Pattie Crider

WRT 305

Response 15

October 16, 2013


The passion of one woman’s social concern


            Bacon’s ideology was that scientific discourse is a technical treatment of truth and rhetoric links knowledge to social concerns. Bacon stated that applying reason to imagination would be successful to move the will of the hearer and with that ability involved great responsibility. Fell, an outspoken woman of her time, believed that she was a prophet of God and raised the concern that women were afraid to speak in fear of male retaliation.

As Bacon had stated, bringing the knowledge of social concerns (such as this genuine fear of speaking by women) was important and that the person bringing forth such affection and imagination for the future must be responsible for their actions. The message Fell wished to bring to light (that of women’s rights) was done with great affection as it was important to her specifically.  Her ideas were supported in Bacon’s theory in that those following this strong-minded woman could reason the importance of feminine thought for the future.

Fell was possibly the first to seriously question the rejection of women’s roles in the church. Her affection to this cause was brought forward in their present time and her rhetoric involving Biblical text detailed the roles of woman therein. She passionately stood her ground in support that women not only have the right to speak and be involved but to also be a leader in teaching God’s word. It took a strong woman to speak what would eventually become accepted in the future. It was this passion and reasoning that moved the imagination of other’s will to accept women in the leadership roles they hold in churches today.

Ramus the Radical

Pattie Crider

WRT 305

Response 14

October 11, 2013

Ramus the Radical

Ramus was intent on separating philosophy and rhetoric and redefining rhetoric as a whole. His method of arguing was rather harsh as he called out Quintilian. I was particularly struck by his argument about the morality of rhetors and basically stating that one did not have to be of high ethics to speak rhetorically. This was the complete opposite of what we have been learning, but a more honest approach.

Perhaps Ramus, with his graphic representations, was onto something, other than bashing other rhetors. Ramus came from a lowly background and had to work as a servant to the wealthy kids in college as he earned his degree.  Maybe this made him a little bitter. No matter the reason, he believed that rhetoric consisted of only style and delivery and morality had nothing to do with the process. Even if Ramus was incredibly rude and was eventually murdered, I have to agree with him. The morality of a person really has nothing to do with their ability to teach.

Ramus didn’t believe the skills taught at college would prepare students for using rhetoric after graduation. He wanted rhetoric and logic separated and more focus placed on effective language, even language other than Latin. He also recognized the importance of language being recorded and happily sent his work off to be printed. His focus on dialectic dealt with reason and grammar while rhetoric dealt with speech and was split between style and delivery.

Basically, Ramus broke away from the 5 canons and developed his own concept, breaking the rules that had been written in the past. This rule breaking and rudeness is what most likely cost him his life but he was alive long enough to make his ideology known.

Of Conversation

A contemporary look at how women might converse online as a group in comparison to the rhetoric of Madeliene de Scudery in the 17th Century.

Response 16

Women Messaging as a Group 

Tina: Finally, chat time with my peeps! I struggled through a weekend visit of the in-laws. They are so opinionated and they only find faults my attempts to please them.

Lucy: Oh girl, I hear that! I dread visits from my hubby’s family. My father-in-law is an ass-chasing piece of work.

Lisa: Last time my in-laws visited, I seriously considered poisoning their food but was afraid one of the kids might eat off their plate.

Tina: LOL @Lisa.  That is just wrong!

Lucy: Baahahaha, but we’ve all had those poisoning fantasies, especially at holiday meals. I feel like my father-in-law is constantly leering at me.

Lisa: A slow poisoning would be ideal.  Make them suffer for a few hours, so I can enjoy it.

Tina: Remind me to never piss you off Lisa.

Lisa: I would never poison anyone but I can fantasize. My father-in-law is a defense lawyer and his dinner stories make me sick.  He represents these scumbags, knowing they are guilty but happy to take their money.

Lucy: Oh, that is terrible. I’ve never liked lawyers so I’m sure I wouldn’t like your father-in-law. He doesn’t look at you like a piece of meat does he?

Lisa: No, thank God. I think he might be a closet case to be honest. His wife is beautiful, but he shows no interest in her.  She is always boo-hooing to me that they don’t have sex and all he wants to do is hang at that new “men’s only” gym.

Tina: OMG, you mother-in-law talks sex with you? Eeeeek!

Lucy: Maybe he has a secret lover at the gym! A work-out buddy, know what I mean?!

Lisa: Stop it…you’re both making me feel sick to my stomach! I’m just glad they only visit every few months.

Tina: Consider yourself lucky. Mine are over nearly every weekend.

Lucy: If I had to wear pants and a turtleneck every weekend just to keep my father-in-laws eyes off my ass and boobs I would lose it. I’ve even mentioned to my husband that his dad is ogling me and he says it’s all in my head.

Lisa: What a jerk! How can’t he notice?

Lucy: Probably because his eyes are too focused on whatever football game is on the tv.

Tina: Men! We only need them to make babies, after that I wonder what good they are.

Lisa: They certainly aren’t any good for conversation. If Rick utters three words during dinner it’s a miracle. I’m surprised he breathes between stuffing bites of food into his mouth.

Tina: Does he chew with his mouth open?

Lisa: Yes!  How did you know?

Tina: Cause that’s when he breathes.


Lisa: Toooooo funny Tina…and probably true. It was good chatting with yous, I gotta go do the dishes.

Tina: Ok hon, you have fun with that.  Wash them in your skivvies while you can.

Lisa: My luck, the pervert would show up and just walk in, catching me in the act of washing dishes in Victoria’s Secrets.

Lucy: You two crack me up.  Chat with you later!  Oxox

Tina: Wear footie pj’s and you’ll never have to worry.

Lisa: That’s not a bad idea.  I can’t think of anything less sexy! Good night ladies!

Tina: Good nite luvs!


Bold Creative Copying

Pattie Crider

WRT 305

Response 13

October 9, 2013


Bold Creative Copying

                According to Erasmus, copia is the process of copying existing texts to a new format and adding a splash of color. By that I mean, Erasmus could take a single sentence and write it a hundred different ways, saying the same thing but rearranging words or phrases, adding synonyms, metaphors and applying other advanced composition. Erasmus copied text and added flavor, making the text more appealing. He taught this method noting the importance of avoiding words that are vulgar (in sound) or clichéd, or even unusual, to that of common people. Erasmus believed one should never use the same word twice when there are many words that mean the same thing and can be used, rather than repeat. He wanted his copia to be a bold invention of language, like that of a poet. He believed this style of writing would create a resurgence in Latin text. It didn’t.

This type of copying is still useful today. Erasmus wrote carefully in Latin making sure each word was perfectly chosen. In professional writing we are constantly instructed to write and re-write, creating draft after draft, searching for the perfect words to make the perfect sentence. While we only read a small section of Erasmus work, I understand why he stresses the point of choosing the correct words. The work must flow–almost sing to the reader–to keep them engaged. Erasmus recognized the importance of this bold, colorful, well thought-out, writing style and applied it to existing text, ramping them up in language.

For example, I think this type of copying would be useful in re-writing Christine de Pizan’s, The Treasure of the City of Ladies. This text could be copied to a modern princess story, updating the language and adding advanced composition. The section on the nature of women could certainly use a re-write to make it applicable to the modern women of today. Regardless of the text, copia is still used to take “old stories” and make them “new” to readers.

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